HAG motor types

version 1.4.0, updated to 22/10/2009

Sources:
Stefan Unholz site
HAG swiss forum
HAG Yahoo! group
HAG official site
My HAG chicks ;-) (locos)


This web page will help you, to understand the characteristics and the differences of the various type motors, used by HAG.
I have devided the guide in 2 parts: quick and detailed part:

QUICK GUIDE
There are 4 HAG motor types:
                                                  brushes ("Motorbürsten") side                           gear side

     


    


plus 2 particular cases:

and, finally:


DETAILED GUIDE

The base for this web page, were the informations posted at the personal site of an expert HAG modeller, Stefan Unholz.
You can visit his page, by clicking here. There is an unique HAG loco database and other infos and tips about HAG models.

Because is a little difficult, to explain all the infos about the HAG motors, using the ebay (or ricardo.ch) message system,
I have prefered to post all infos here.

For infos, experiences, fotos, errors or suggestions, please e-mail me!
                                                        



There are 4 HAG motor types:
the main types are 2:
 plus 2 particular cases:
It is very easy to open a HAG engine, just unscrew the body from the chassis, from downside:
Modern type 88
Foto of type "88" motor (from 1988), both sides, DC version, here in a SBB class 460 loco:
 
brushes ("Motorbürsten") side



High resolution: click here.


gear side



As you can see, in type 88, the brashes and their springs are completely invisible.

High resolution: click here.

 Other fotos from stefanunholz.ch :
          



Also, the type 88 has a "drum" current collector.
This mean that the brushes face each other and are pressured towards a rotating drum
(as a "ring" and highlighted in green) which supplies the motor.
The 2 brushes touch the collector, as the (red) arrows show below.




Maybe they have called this collector, "drum collector", because remembers the drum brakes of our cars (back axle).
See an example foto here.


Old type 66

And theese are 2 fotos of the old HAG motor "type 66" (up to 1986)

Here in AC version. brushes size opened, see the different current collector:
in this motor has a disc form.

       


Disc form? This means that the brushes sitting next to each other, ouch the collector,
which has a disc form (green arrow).

   

And here a foto from the motor's "carter".
As you can see, in type 66, the brushes and their springs are well visible.
1987 "intermediate" motor

As seen from the source site: Re 4/4 and Re 6/6 units produced around 1987, may be equipped with an "intermediate" motor which has the older flat collector rotor, but the newer ball bearings and is built into a housing similar to the one shown above.
The following fotos shows it along, (in the second one with the warning notice provided by HAG with locos featuring this motor). The arrow points to the ball bearings.


"66" and "1987 intermediate" are very similar: same rotor and carter.
Only the motor body changes: the "1987 intermediate" has the same as motor type "88"
(and thus is possible the upgrade to an "88" motor, see below)

In this foto, from a HAG catalogue, you can see an important notice provided by HAG, with locos featuring this motor:



Translation in english, by Stefan Unholz:
The motor of this locomotive is already equipped with ball bearings. If you
should dismantle the motor, take care not to lose the "separator disk", which is located towards the rear ball bearings. This positioning of the ball bearings was done deliberately, to facilitate a possible later modification of the motor, using the new rotor and the new brush holder part, which both will be available from 1988.

This mean, that a motor update, from the "1987 intermediate", to the "88" motor is possible, but of course, you have to use the new motor "carter" (also called: brush "holder") of the "88" motor, to do this.


Which motor is the best?
I do not know, which current collector is better: I have only HAG locos with "88" type motor
(several SBB 460, one Re 6/6 and three Re 4/4), so I cannot do a comparison,
But when I am writing these lines (22-10-09), I am interesting a Re 6/6 with "Gerra-Gambarogno" blazon,
whitch has the "1987 intermediate" motor and when and if I have it, I can to a test comparison.


An italian friend and modeller has 2 HAG SBB locos, class Re 6/6:
  1. the "Sonceboz": produced around 1987 or 1988, so with the old "66" or the "1987 intermediate" motor
    (which has the same disc collector as type "66") and
  2. the "Kloten": produced around 1996-1997, so with the new "88" motor).
He has told me (and posted to an italian railmodel forum) that the 88 motor consumes less power and starts at a lower voltage.
But both locos (and both motors) has a very nice movement.
Starting at lower voltage, helps the modeller if he has an analogue layout.
But a good decoder (eg. Zimo series MX63x, as I use), improves much more the movement (and, also, the lowest speed).




Old motor for railcars

Finally, click here to see the motor of the first generation of railcars
(models # 150, 190, 250, 252, 260, out of production from many years,
I haven't seen it yet, so I do not know something about it).





Infors for other manufacturers' motors

Also Marklin, (I think that) has changed his motor (from a similar 66 to a similar 88), but I do not know when or any other details about this change. The oldest Marklin loco I have, an german electric loco class 120, produced around 1985 (Hamo variant for DC), had already a drum collector.

Fleischmann, uptoday has used a flat motor with disc collector (here a foto) and, still use it to the older design locos (as in my DB 220).
Only to the newer design locos (as my DB-AG 101) use a different motor (with "drum" style collector).

Flat motor with disc collector was used, also from Lima, from many years: the famous G motor. Starring in late 80s', Lima has replaced it with a central cardan motor (and with drum collector) to the fine scale and detail models, but still used the G motor to the semplified and economical one.
But,for many italian modellers the G motor is considered indestructible!
Lima started to have problems with her (cardan) meccanisms, when has abandoned the G motor. Many italian modellers submit that it would be better to develop further the G motor, to have a drum collector.
Also, Marklin had problems when she started to use a new motor, the C-Sinus motor. One version (the second generation I think) has some troubles in some models.

Here, an another foto to see the differences between the 2 collector types:
  



ATTENTION! If you have to digitalise a HAG loco, with a "88" motor type, you MUST eliminate first a small screw, otherwise the decoder will be burned! I will post a web page, explain the digitalisation of a HAG loco.
Meanwhile, you may take a look to my question in a swiss modeller forum,
by clicking here. If you speak german, I suggest to read all the topic here (also translated in english with Google, could be comprehensible).

Old motor for railcars

Finally, click here to see the motor of the first generation of railcars (models # 150, 190, 250, 252, 260, out of production from many years, I haven't seen it yet, so I do not know something about it).